Many people repeat the same old story about Ziegler and Dianabol, the first ever oral steroid, and how everything started in the mid '50s. So guys from the late '40s and early '50s were all natural, right? Well, let's see...
The first 17α-alkylated AAS was actually methyltestosterone and it was synthesized back in 1935 and approved in 1936.
But-but it wasn't widely available, it was available only to scientists and researchers, right? Just listen to your guy Eric Helms.
I remember reading a supposed expose in MuscleMag International in the 90s that bodybuilders in the 40s used Testosterone. Robert Kennedy says he was "shocked'; he really believed bodybuilders in the 40s and 50s were natural.
04-02-2020, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2020, 06:23 PM by TruthSeeker.)
(03-30-2020, 04:53 PM)Templar Wrote: Many people repeat the same old story about Ziegler and Dianabol, the first ever oral steroid, and how everything started in the mid '50s. So guys from the late '40s and early '50s were all natural, right? Well, let's see...
The first 17α-alkylated AAS was actually methyltestosterone and it was synthesized back in 1935 and approved in 1936.
But-but it wasn't widely available, it was available only to scientists and researchers, right? Just listen to your guy Eric Helms.
I knew about that ad for a long time, but I couldn't find it again. Now I finally did. And I wish I had your article some time ago when I was arguing with some morons over Marvin Eder. I say morons because you have to be a moron to believe that a guy who is under 90 kg can bench press over 230 kg, squat 250 kg for reps, deadlift over 300 kg and press like 150-160 kg without drugs. His numbers are insane even today. How many 90 kg guys have these numbers? And he was natural just because it was before dianabol. Delusional people... Yes, he was genetically gifted and that's why most lifters don't have his numbers although they are on drugs too. But to say that he was natural, I mean, people act like having good genetics means that you are somehow a gorilla and not a human anymore. It's ridiculous. On top of that I think he had one of the first WOW before-and-after transformations. And also people look at those early bodybuilders like they are some natty heroes when in reality they were more than ready to take drugs. John Grimek, although he didn't compete anymore, was willing to test steroids for Ziegler.
04-03-2020, 05:11 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2020, 05:12 AM by TruthSeeker.)
(04-02-2020, 11:05 PM)Templar Wrote: I knew about that ad for a long time, but I couldn't find it again. Now I finally did. And I wish I had your article some time ago when I was arguing with some morons over Marvin Eder. I say morons because you have to be a moron to believe that a guy who is under 90 kg can bench press over 230 kg, squat 250 kg for reps, deadlift over 300 kg and press like 150-160 kg without drugs. His numbers are insane even today. How many 90 kg guys have these numbers? And he was natural just because it was before dianabol. Delusional people... Yes, he was genetically gifted and that's why most lifters don't have his numbers although they are on drugs too. But to say that he was natural, I mean, people act like having good genetics means that you are somehow a gorilla and not a human anymore. It's ridiculous. On top of that I think he had one of the first WOW before-and-after transformations. And also people look at those early bodybuilders like they are some natty heroes when in reality they were more than ready to take drugs. John Grimek, although he didn't compete anymore, was willing to test steroids for Ziegler.
"Reg Park was giving Arnold a run for his money but was natural."
(04-06-2020, 12:59 PM)All Natural Wrote: Excellent find Templar! Do you know the year in which this product was first made available to consumers?
Truth Seeker - I checked your article you linked. Good job.
You know what amazes me? Dianabol is supposed to be really estrogenic in nature. If my mind is correct, it metabolizes to methyl-estrogen, which is why it is very watery in nature. However, given its estrogen nature, it provides the user with a "high", and in fact it can become very addictive to use (estrogen releases serotonin, the "happy/calm" hormone)
With that in mind, my question is, how did those guys use this powerful drug, and experience no ill effects from estrogen? Steroid gurus today would cringe if you said you take dianabol or anadrol without any kind of estrogen blocker, however those guys back then had no access to estrogen blockers, yet experienced zero bloating or gyno.
Some suggest that arnold used very few mgs of dianabol, like 10-15mgs every single day. While nobody can know for sure, except him, given his huge drive for success if feel like this could be a lie. However, i have to give doubt to my suspicion, because 10-15mgs of dianabol every day would not prove to be a huge problem estrogen wise, compared to guys today, who use 50-60mgs + and have to use aromatase inhibitors to cope with the huge dose of estrogen.
Keep in mind those drugs where designed to give results with little to no side effects . In order to minimize side effects, you have to stick with your doctors approved dosage. I know guys back then where as reckless as guys today. If they werent, Mike Mentzer, for example, would not be dead, or at least he would no die so young.
Because estrogen side effects are vastly exaggerated and people take AIs not because they actually need them but because someone told them that they need them. For example, 90% of people will never get gyno on 500 mg of testosterone even without AIs. But people take them anyway because they think they MIGHT get it. The same thing about bloating, you know, Dianabol and estrogen are the problem, not that they eat high sodium junk food and that they are usually unprepared for a cycle and have to much body fat. And then the famous PCT... God forbid they let their body and HPTA recover naturally. But if the steroid gurus say so you should stack yourself up with even more drugs.
(04-07-2020, 02:46 AM)Templar Wrote: Because estrogen side effects are vastly exaggerated and people take AIs not because they actually need them but because someone told them that they need them. For example, 90% of people will never get gyno on 500 mg of testosterone even without AIs. But people take them anyway because they think they MIGHT get it. The same thing about bloating, you know, Dianabol and estrogen are the problem, not that they eat high sodium junk food and that they are usually unprepared for a cycle and have to much body fat. And then the famous PCT... God forbid they let their body and HPTA recover naturally. But if the steroid gurus say so you should stack yourself up with even more drugs.
I agree, there is a very large misinformation regarding those drugs. Part of the reason behind it, is 1st, ignorance, second, their illegal status. If most steroids were legal to buy, under the guidance of a doctor, most people would not screw themselves up.
PCT is bullshit. It is actually much safer if you simply go on a cruise doge of testosterone, coupled with some bridging drugs (proviron, HCG) to help your body reach homeostasis quicker. The point of pct is to quickly help your body reach homeostasis. PCT is rough and it can actually produce more side effects than the androgens you used.
Also there is a huge possibility, depending on the drugs you used, to be permanently shut down. 19-nors are notorius for doing that. No amount of pct is going to help you there.
I dont think you can recover naturally without any chemical assistance. Actually, you can, theoretically, but your life will be a living hell for a couple of weeks. I dont think you would love to have no androgens in your body. You feel totally like shit. Its actually then that most people experience severe post-cycle depression .
Tbh, you either stay 100% natural, or you stay on drugs for life. You can play a little bit in the middle ground if you like, doing a cycle here and a cycle there, but thing is that this shit is a slippery slope and you can easily slip and go downfall and use more drugs.
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