Lean Gains?

[jimjohnson]

I kind of got back into lifting because of Berkham. I liked his keep it short, minimilist, lift heavy, get out

3 x 1/2 sessions, 3-4 exercises, lift heavy sets of 5. Bingo.

But looking at his picture where he was 100% peak of his fitness, i doubt he was natural. He simply looked far too big and lean at the same time. Intermittent fasting and lifting heavy was not responsible for that physique.

 He posts a few picture of body builders that came to him to lean down for competition level fitness. No way they are natural. I know..they are competing in natural comp's but that means nothing does it?

What he says is good. To keep your time in the gym small. Lift fairly heavy, focus on a few core exercises etc. Use I.F. to cut calories BUT he does spoil it with pictures of roided lifters. I guess in that business natural levels do not sell systems/books coaching etc?

What do you think?

[Flip109]

I think he’s on some shit. Those veins and shoulders popping out like extra heads.

[jimjohnson]

yeah when he shows his picture in his peak that is deffo not natural.

Then he disappears....come back and he's no-where near as lean. Still muscular but not lean now.

So i think when he was on the gear he could eat 3,000+ cal's a day and stay ultra lean (nothing to do with IF) then he came off and started putting weight on. I think he is natural now (Hence he isn't shredded) but not when he was about 7% b.f. with veins popping out everywhere

Like everything else I can say with 100% surety but i am fairly certain this is what he did

[TruthSeeker]

Staying that lean for naturals is unrealistic.

It's not impossible, but for the average person it is highly unlikely. You would simply go insane. More importantly, it is not needed nor natural to be that lean. But natural in this modern world is subjective.

[TruthSeeker]

Staying that lean for naturals is unrealistic.

It's not impossible, but for the average person it is highly unlikely. You would simply go insane. More importantly, it is not needed nor natural to be that lean. But natural in this modern world is subjective.

So fucking true. I just weighed myself at 80kg exactly (6'1). I was 86kg/87kg. I think I was about 18-20% bf. Now I think I'm about 15-17%. Seriously for a natural to get lean and stay relative, its hard.

In my mind I just wanted to hold 80kg at about 12% bf. Looks like that was a pipe dream. And people complain about the natty table. Shit if I was 86kg and 10% bf (never mind 6) I would be over the moon (momentarily) and fucking big.

So these guys walking around at 10% bf at 85kg + while being under 6'2 are highly suspect in my book.

This lean gains dude is 90kg, shredded to the bone. Must be all that proper meal timing and compound exercise overload.

[khrazz]

He works into the fitness industry. Check
He makes a huge living from his body. Check
He promotes an agenda . Check
You ask if he is natty. Check


Seriously, those are your answers. No way he is natty.  And even if he was, his genetics would still make him superior "natty" in comparison to the average male. So there is no point in making such a comparison.


From what i have learned all these years, if you HAVE to ask if someone is natty, he 8/10 times is NOT . So focus on yourself and see where you can get at. You will find more peace this way

[jimjohnson]

doesn't he deadlift like 330kg?...That is f**** strong. (unaturally so)

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so...if i am at my muscle potential (i may be a little off but let's just say i am at my max natutral potenial)

76kg....5ft 7"

what % body fat am i? I am hoping 12%....can i find out form those numbers? If i am over 12%....I give up trying for 10%

[Simple Simon]

^ "even if he was [natural], his genetics would still make him [a] superior "natty" in comparison to the average male. So there is no point in making such a comparison."

This! It's not just "nattyornot"; it's are such outcomes possible for the natural AND genetically typical.

[jimjohnson]

^ "even if he was [natural], his genetics would still make him [a] superior "natty" in comparison to the average male. So there is no point in making such a comparison."

This!  It's not just "nattyornot"; it's are such outcomes possible for the natural AND genetically typical.

i think we need to stop it with the "superior genetics." I think the gap is relatively small "naturally" 

Juicers always play this card....he's got this and that blah,blah,blah...

Look at Sandow as about the maximum natural level. And please do not give me the "nutrition and training has come a long way in 120 years. he was as strong as you can get naturally. Now all of a sudden we have kids that can beat his numbers all down to IF and cheescake timing etc....

[khrazz]

^ "even if he was [natural], his genetics would still make him [a] superior "natty" in comparison to the average male. So there is no point in making such a comparison."

This!  It's not just "nattyornot"; it's are such outcomes possible for the natural AND genetically typical.

i think we need to stop it with the "superior genetics." I think the gap is relatively small "naturally" 

Juicers always play this card....he's got this and that blah,blah,blah...

Look at Sandow as about the maximum natural level. And please do not give me the "nutrition and training has come a long way in 120 years. he was as strong as you can get naturally. Now all of a sudden we have kids that can beat his numbers all down to IF and cheescake timing etc....

By genetics i mean their starting point and muscle insertions. Lets face it, some (not all of them ofcourse) worked out from a younger age, which helped them build their base and starting set point. Its one thing to start working out from 12 years of age, and another to start working out from 21. While in theory you cant add a lot of muscle before anabolic hormones come into play, hence why a 12 year old cant get huge, that does not mean that a teenager is unable to add muscle, or that he cannot change his muscle/fat cell setpoint. Just take a look at jeff seids 13 old photos. He had a body that was cut and somewhat muscular. Thats him being ahead of the curve compared to his peers.

Now fast forward to him being 24 now. Obviously he uses gear. But i am willing to bet that if you take someone his age and put him into the same cocktail of gear as jeff seid he still wont look like him. Thats because jeff has the right genetics and drugs amplify the result.

And lets face it, genetics is everything, and it goes deeper than you think. Genetics are even responsible to how your brain reacts to exercise. How do most teenager pass their time during their teen years? Partying, smoking, drinking, and playing video games. Working out to them is like a chore. Thats their brain doing that, not lazyness. (actually being lazy is linked to genetics aswell).

Genetics also play a huge role in bone insertions. You cant change that. just like your height.