Give it to me straight.

[jimjohnson]

yeah you have to seriously cut cal's....even god forbid do some cardio...duh.duhhh....

I only lift weights every 2 weeks.....it's good for maintenance.....

And i get admring looks all day long...

Cut the sweet stuff out.
Cut the booze right down (out if possible)
Stop over eating....
Lift weights every so often to maintain a a bit of muscle mass.

Done

---

Sure, not all calories are utilized the same by your body, and there are a lot of chemical and biochemical reactions that are active 24/7 in your body. It is universally accepted that fat = 9cals, protein/carbs =4 and alcohol - ~7. Thats half the truth however, and its a simplistic way of thinking and mathematics without considering the big picture. Its like looking at an iceberg. You are only looking at its peak, but miss its vast mass underneath the sea.


Fat calories, are for the most part, either stored as bodyfat or burned of as energy. Due to their chemical nature (they form huge bonds and aromatic circles ) they are tougher to burn off, but they do, gradually. This is the reason, fat calories are initially stored as bodyfat. That does not mean they are permanently stored however.

Protein calories, are huge bonds of amino acids bound together. You body CANNOT, and i repeat, CANNOT store them as bodyfat. Why you say? Well, their chemical nature prevents them from doing so. Amino acids have nitrogen. Nitrogen cannot be converted to adipose tissue because its chemical structure cannot form bonds with aromatic circles. You body, will get rid of excess protein via urine. This is the reason why when you follow a high protein diet, your urine has an ammonia smell to it.  And here is the thing, if you work out, your body is in constant need of amino acids, due to MPS. So that decreases the chance of it converting it to bodyfat even further. Plus, protein has a high satiety factor. One last thing, your body may convert excess protein as glucose, via gluconeogenesis. However, this procedure costs energy for your body, which leads to thermic effect of food (flushing). So in reality, protein might actually be less than 4calories.


Carbs calories, are glucose based bonds. They are quick to break down, and its your bodys best energy source (contrary to what ketodieters say). They are for the most part burned of as energy, or stored as glycogen in your muscles, brain, liver. They are not easily stored as bodyfat in active people, because they are in constant need of energy. Active people, quickly burn off excess carbs either as fuel or heat.
    However, if you consume a lot of carbs for quite some time, there is a magic thing that happens. Deno-vo lipogenesis. What that does, is that after your body has had an abundance of carbs, and has all its glycogen stores filled, it will rapidly store excess carbs as bodyfat. Amazing what the body does right?


You cant expect people to learn all that stuff. That stuff requieres you to go to a library or university. I learned that stuff from uni (i study Food Science and technology) This is why you need an "expert" to guide you to lose weight. Sure, you can do it alone. But a lot of people cannot. They lack even the basic knowledge of what a calories are, let alone the things i wrote above.

so by your idea...if i eat 4,000 cal's of protein a day i cannot get fat......? Right that's what you said.


Sorry....i disagree

[Hans]

Is that tower analogy supposed to do the trick. Jumping off one has the aid of gravity, so obviously 'jumping on it' (that makes no sense but you used that so I will) will not suffice because now gravity is working against you.

With loosing fat please explain the correlation between gravity and simply eating more or less?

Are you trying to bring natural selection into this. Okay, first human beings all have the ability to get fat and get extremely thin. So that throws out your natural selection theory although I asked you to convince me that losing weight is really more complicated than gaining it, and you came up with natural selection. Then you said we crave fat and sugar because they taste good? Yes we do, and they are readily available, yes they are, however sugar was not always readily available, in fact it was extremely hard for most of the poor to get it up until the 1600's. The rich which made up a fraction of the population could afford it, the rest didn't have the seeming luxury. Rotting teeth were  even used as a symbol of wealth. I think human 'natural selection' had already occured long before the 1600's wouldn't you agree? If you subscribe to evolution theory that is.

Genes dont determine your bodyfat, your diet does. Some individuals may be more prone to carrying weight but their diets are always also unhealthy and they eating in a calorie surplus.

WTF ...

Did you actually understand what I wrote?

"Jumping off one has the aid of gravity, so obviously 'jumping on it' ... will not suffice because now gravity is working against you."
Ahhm, yes, this was the point of that analogy: One direction (falling down => becoming fat) is easier than the other one (jumping high => dieting) because of some natural force (gravity => our bodies trying to preserve/gain energy deposits) acting accordingly.

"Okay, first human beings all have the ability to get fat and get extremely thin. So that throws out your natural selection theory ..."
And exactly why? Over thousands and thousands of years our species *as a whole* has developed the ability to crave food rich in energy and to accumulate that food as energy deposits in form of body fat. We are the descendants of those individuals who were simply more efficient with respect to their body fat than their fellow human beings who were kicked out of life when there was lack of food.

"Genes don't determine your bodyfat .... Some individuals may be more prone to carrying weight ..."
A statement and its contradiction not even one sentence apart. Seriously?

"It comes down to this, eat less than your body requires to maintain its current weight. Don't overthink it." (from a former post)
Wow, what's next: How to become a millionaire -- Just spend less than you earn?

Really, the point is, most people (I was no exception) don't know how much they eat ("eat less than ...") and cannot estimate how much calories they have burned so far ("... your body requires"). So advice like yours is of no practical use for someone who seriously wants to lose fat. On the other hand, dieting is one of those few domains in this fucked up fitness world where following some kind of protocol/routine really works. And it's not even complicated but only requires some organizational effort.

[khrazz]

yeah you have to seriously cut cal's....even god forbid do some cardio...duh.duhhh....

I only lift weights every 2 weeks.....it's good for maintenance.....

And i get admring looks all day long...

Cut the sweet stuff out.
Cut the booze right down (out if possible)
Stop over eating....
Lift weights every so often to maintain a a bit of muscle mass.

Done

---

so by your idea...if i eat 4,000 cal's of protein a day i cannot get fat......? Right that's what you said.


Sorry....i disagree

That could be possible in theory and if you only see calories, as i mentioned, as numbers on paper and not as molecules that cause reactions in your body, but in reality you will experience rabbit starvation (protein poisoning) way longer before your body has the chance to add bodyfat.
Plus, protein is always accompanied by either fat (ex steak) or carbs (ex beans) so no, your argument is invalid, you cannot eat isolated forms of protein. There is no way you will eat 4,000 cals of protein alone. Period. And even if we set aside protein poisoning, protein is highly satiating. To consume such a vast amount of protein in a single day would be, you guessed it, impossible.
Convinced yet?

[jimjohnson]

WTF ...

Did you actually understand what I wrote?

"Jumping off one has the aid of gravity, so obviously 'jumping on it' ... will not suffice because now gravity is working against you."
Ahhm, yes, this was the point of that analogy: One direction (falling down => becoming fat) is easier than the other one (jumping high => dieting) because of some natural force (gravity => our bodies trying to preserve/gain energy deposits) acting accordingly.

"Okay, first human beings all have the ability to get fat and get extremely thin. So that throws out your natural selection theory ..."
And exactly why? Over thousands and thousands of years our species *as a whole* has developed the ability to crave food rich in energy and to accumulate that food as energy deposits in form of body fat. We are the descendants of those individuals who were simply more efficient with respect to their body fat than their fellow human beings who were kicked out of life when there was lack of food.

"Genes don't determine your bodyfat .... Some individuals may be more prone to carrying weight ..."
A statement and its contradiction not even one sentence apart. Seriously?

"It comes down to this, eat less than your body requires to maintain its current weight. Don't overthink it." (from a former post)
Wow, what's next: How to become a millionaire -- Just spend less than you earn?

Really, the point is, most people (I was no exception) don't know how much they eat ("eat less than ...") and cannot estimate how much calories they have burned so far ("... your body requires"). So advice like yours is of no practical use for someone who seriously wants to lose fat. On the other hand, dieting is one of those few domains in this fucked up fitness world where following some kind of protocol/routine really works. And it's not even complicated but only requires some organizational effort.

but a fat person has to over eat......no question about that. It doesn't come from no-where

[Hans]

@Truthseeker: Move this thread to the new Nutrition section?

[Richard]

I'm also a fat guy. A light caloric deficit and a training program centered around a healthy mix of exercises with a focus on gaining strength would work wonders.

[Grinch]

but a fat person has to over eat......no question about that. It doesn't come from no-where

Some people, to not be hungry, will eat a surplus of calories. It is just not sustainable to be hungry all the time when food is readily available. Telling people to eat less has been proven to not work for most people in the long run. Bodybuilders resort to drugs to cut, lose weight. Actors often use adderall (prescription meth) or cocaine. Some people get bariatric surgery, which also instantly cures type 2 diabetes.

[Hans]

Some people, to not be hungry, will eat a surplus of calories. It is just not sustainable to be hungry all the time when food is readily available. Telling people to eat less has been proven to not work for most people in the long run. Bodybuilders resort to drugs to cut, lose weight. Actors often use adderall (prescription meth) or cocaine. Some people get bariatric surgery, which also instantly cures type 2 diabetes.

 
... and some people do the unbelievable: they simply diet properly.

[Navigator]

Don't overcomplicate things, I agree with Brett on that one - just eat less, it's really just that simple but hard part is to make yourself to actually eat less and on this many people fails
That is the one of the main reasons why people jump in obscure diets and calorie counting - it's easier for them to adopt discipline through any form of programe instead of simply eating less
I have lost more than 20kg with diet that was nothing out of ordinary, I ate practically everything but in moderation
Nothing like starvation diet, I just eat normally and by normally I mean not to shovel yourself with food
Hippocrates said something like this "If you leave table with slight feeling of hunger you have eaten well, but if you leave full you have poisoned yourself"
Just stick mostly to whole food and you will be fine
As for training - 2x week is just fine, and you can find good 2 day training plan on nattyornot site -  rest of the week you can do a few core, grip and stretching exercises (I don't do dedicated cardio at all - I just walk 30-45min every day with solid pace and I always use stairs because I live in high-rise building)

P.S. It's useful to get a scale for weight monitoring progress and tape measure for waist

[Plato]

You only need count calories for while the after that just est80% healthy and 20% crap that what I do . Don’t stress about it . I use to count but I think that can lead to mental illness. You know how much most things are and how much will get you fat .