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Evidence based fitness is a scam
#1
Evidence based fitness gurus remind me of PUAs. They are both targeting a very specific population of men - the men who are "enlightened", who think they are not bluepilled anymore and now they are going to use scientific methods and psychology to approach and seduce women or on the other side men who know about fake natties and steroids, but they are going to get big and jacked by using science. It's funny, Greg The Bullshitter Nuckols even has a site called Stronger By Science.

What's even funnier is that 99% of evidence based gurus are either former or current juicers. Or intermittent. But they are all about science and scientific methods of training and they are going to help you reach your goals, just subscribe to their newsletter or buy their programs. As I said they are targeting the smarter part of fitness population but in the end it's all bullshit.

Let me ask you one thing - how did Eugen Sandow and Bobby Pandour build their physiques? No hormones, no calorie and macronutrient counting, no scientific methods of training and yet they look better than most gym members today. What does that tell you? Building muscle and losing fat is not a rocket science. But evidence based gurus want to make a science out of it. Why? Because then they have something to sell you.

Now another question - how do you think pro bodybuilders get to the Olympia stage? I mean, you may like them or not, but they are the best of the best when it comes to dieting and building muscles. Do they use scientific methods? "But they are on drugs!" Yes, and that's the point, you should focus on things that have a big impact on human body, not on some non important shit. And I had delusional guys who said to me "But they would be bigger if they use science!". Really? I mean, yeah, not using scientific training is why they can't grow anymore... I remember in Generation Iron there was a plot with Ben Pakulski and Branch Warren, Pakulski was like optimal range of motion, optimal exercises, blah blah blah and Warren trained like a moron. Guess who won... Now, I am not defending pro bodybuilders because they have their own bro stories which they use to cover the fact that they built their bodies with good genetics and drugs and not with some special training techniques, but they are just an example of why all that science shit doesn't matter. And if you want to prep for Mr. Olympia, would you hire some science based guru or Chris Aceto?

Let me be clear, I am not saying that scientific studies are useless. Thanks to them we know that a lot of supplements are garbage, although science was also used to support those products at the same time, and we know a thing or two about training and nutrition, but they are not something that people should be obsessed over. And we have exactly that - people in evidence based fitness forums and facebook groups are jacking off on scientific studies and arguing about things that aren't gonna make a difference in the end.

Just to give you a few examples, let's say you see a study that says whey protein causes bigger elevation in MPS than meat. Ok, so what? So now you are somehow going to be bigger because of that? Or my favorite one - MPS is elevated only 48h after training so you should hit your muscles more often. Ok, and how is that going to help you if your body, joints and CNS can't handle hitting the same muscle group every 48h? Or some study says that 15 sets per muscle group per week is better than 10. And what if you can barely handle 10 let alone 15? The funny thing is when the bros say you should find what works for you everyone is lashing out at them - no, we have science, you are not special - but actually they are right. Some people respond better to lower volumes, some to higher, although from my experience those who respond better to higher respond pretty good to lower volumes too. On the other hand, there are people who respond only to lower volumes and higher volumes are detrimental to them. I guess it's again genetics. So how about you just try different volumes and see what happens? You don't need science for that. And another thing is obsession with what's optimal. Is this optimal, that's not optimal... Do you know what's optimal? To have rich parents, so you don't have to work or stress yourself about anything and to just eat, train and sleep. We normal people don't have that, so what's the point obsessing over it?

But because evidence based people don't see the forest for the trees, they convince themselves that all that shit is somehow important and their gurus make profit. "Stay on the cutting-edge of strength, hypertrophy, and nutrition research" - 30$ per month. I am laughing. How about you save that money and buy some testosterone, you know, the thing that really matters? Or if you don't wanna go that way then just stay natural, but don't give money to these scammers.
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#2
(06-03-2020, 07:36 PM)Templar Wrote: the men who are "enlightened", who think they are not bluepilled anymore and now they are going to use scientific methods and psychology to approach and seduce women or on the other side men who know about fake natties and steroids, but they are going to get big and jacked by using science.

People have to go through many stages of 'enlightenment' before they realise the truth. It's the same old cycle: start lifting, get some results but nowhere near as much as advertised, get depressed, switch to a new routine promising miraculous gains, rinse, and repeat. Sooner or later they'll come to the realisation that natties will look like natties, no matter how hard they train or what routine they do.
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#3
I agree that PUA and natty "hypertrophy cutting edge programs" have a lot in common. They both target men who are in the underperforming group.

Let's face it: if you were a super tall, handsome guy with a thick frame, your incentive to lift is basically health. A man like that is highly unlikely to subscribe to those ideologies as he would be performing well with women whereas his height and frame would have a dominating effect among men. Being 6'2" with thick wrists and wide shoulders does more for you physical appearance than big biceps.

Meanwhile, the guys in the underperforming group are looking for miracles. Hence why they become open to various suggestions. When you add the classic motivational rhetoric, you have a recipe for a never-ending search of optimization.
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#4
Yup you hit the nail on the head.

Its nice to vent but now we have to find peace in knowing all that. 

Because none of that will ever stop. Some will see the wood for the trees others won't.

I personally no longer take part in trying to convince others unless I'm really in the mood.

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#5
@Templar

You are sort of right, but also wrong at the same time, so I guess in the end you are missing the point. I realize that like most of the guys here you are disillusioned with natty possibilities of the human body regarding hypertrophy, especially considering how much bullshit is out there.

However, evidence based fitness is exactly the thing we should have read before we became sour. If you read the sources instead of salesmen claiming that they are evidence based, but they are projecting the science incorrectly, then you will be better off. Thanks to evidence based fitness we know that

- bro splits are inferior,
- anabolic window is a myth and meal timing does not matter that much,
- you may have gains with various training methods, even with light weights,
- to loose fat you need a caloric deficit and science figured out quite reliable methods to track them from food.

All in all it's better to complain that maybe you can't hit each muscle group every 3rd day without feeling like poop, than live in the world where everyone thinks that annihilating a body part once a week is a way to go. You seem to realize it, but rant nonetheless.

To address some of the points.
(06-03-2020, 07:36 PM)Templar Wrote: Now another question - how do you think pro bodybuilders get to the Olympia stage? I mean, you may like them or not, but they are the best of the best when it comes to dieting and building muscles. Do they use scientific methods?
Do you think they don't? They may be juiced to the gills, but they can't break the laws of thermodynamics. You argue that for bodybuilders miniscule details don't matter. The opposite is true - for them it's everything. It takes a hilarious amount of attention to details to calibrate one's diet to look the best on the Olympia stage. It makes or breaks the physique. It is the reason why e.g. Big Ramy is a disappointment every year because he is not cut enough. Of course genetics matters, but if everyone on the stage is a genetics freak, the fight is for any advantage you can get.

(06-03-2020, 07:36 PM)Templar Wrote: Is this optimal, that's not optimal... Do you know what's optimal? To have rich parents, so you don't have to work or stress yourself about anything and to just eat, train and sleep.
Can you switch your parents for the rich ones? Or is it easier to tweak training variables like frequency, intensity and volume? That's just silly.

"Evidence based" gurus are scammers, but evidence based fitness is fine and without we are drunk kids in the dark which would have to rely on personal experience (takes a lot of time and there is a substantial learning curve) or not evidence based gurus still promoting bro splits, anabolic windows, unnecessarily high amounts of protein, or nothing. Even if you consider it evil, it's lesser evil.
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#6
No, you are missing the point and that's why you ignored some parts of my post. I said clearly that sicentific studies are not useless, but once you know some basic things everything else is just mental gymnastics, but science based gurus wants you to believe otherwise. And that's why I mentioned people from 100 years ago. And that's why I mentioned pro bodybuilders. No, they don't use science, some details matter but not the ones that you think are important and still genetics trumps everything. Geneteics is not only about physical traits but mental too and who can handle extreme conditions better. Also a lot of times they fuck up their contest prep for stupid reasons that don't have anything to do with science. And you know what's actually silly? Claiming that you are using science when dieting beacuse of laws of thermodynamics. So now what, boiling some eggs and driving a car is science because of laws of physics? Give me a break. By the way, the guy who won HW and overall title in my country, and I know him personally, doesn't even know what a calorie is and has never counted calories, but hey, science based guys can keep masturbating over the second law of thermodynamics. And the point wasn't about rich parents, it was that an 8 hour job and family and stress have a lot more negative impact on you than whether for example you are taking antioxidants around training or any other dumb shit. All successful bodybuilders don't have normal jobs, they are coaching, selling something or selling steroids, basically they are fucking around and just eat, train and sleep. But according to science based gurus taking vitamin C is maybe the problem and may hinder you hypertrophy. And now you have guys who can't sleep one more hour because they have to get up and go to work but at the same time they are obsessing if taking antioxidants is optimal. It's just ridiculous. And I actually said that you should tweak you training but tweak it for yourself, following science studies like a blind man can do you more harm than good especially if they are done on some students in the USA who don't work 8 hours like you and can fuck around after their semester. Not to mention that some of them also use drugs. Actually, I am done, I am not gonna waste my time anymore.
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#7
I don't even gym it anymore. Waste of time lifting in psychopathic box. I run and do press-ups.
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#8
(06-21-2020, 10:15 AM)Plato Wrote: I don't even gym it anymore. Waste of time lifting  in psychopathic box. I run and do press-ups.

Will you go back when they reopen?
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#9
(06-21-2020, 10:15 AM)Plato Wrote: I don't even gym it anymore. Waste of time lifting  in psychopathic box. I run and do press-ups.

I quitted gym long time ago - doing a couple of bodyweight exercises a few times a week and that's all
I look pretty much the same
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#10
(06-21-2020, 09:06 PM)lemmings Wrote: Will you go back when they reopen?

no. why should I.  I get same results like this.

(06-22-2020, 07:37 AM)Navigator Wrote: I quitted gym long time ago - doing a couple of bodyweight exercises a few times a week and that's all
I look pretty much the same

yes,  I use to go for my mind. see it as pointless now.
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