Finding someone offline

[TruthSeeker]

In what ways a scam?

You are paying for a product that costs 1/5 of its price. The music is too loud.

Movies have scammed men into thinking that bars are the ultimate place to secure a chick, but in reality, there are more men than women there. Besides, most women go to bars either with male friends or with a group of female bitches. Good luck cutting that group to get your lioness. 

Anther problem is that many females don't take bar flings seriously. They behave differently outside. It's hard to get a serious girlfriend from a bar approach. Not impossible, but certainly not as common as the movies make it to be.

[Loverboy]

You are paying for a product that costs 1/5 of its price. The music is too loud.

Movies have scammed men into thinking that bars are the ultimate place to secure a chick, but in reality, there are more men than women there. Besides, most women go to bars either with male friends or with a group of female bitches. Good luck cutting that group to get your lioness. 

Anther problem is that many females don't take bar flings seriously. They behave differently outside. It's hard to get a serious girlfriend from a bar approach. Not impossible, but certainly not as common as the movies make it to be.

When dating, you are told to "do what you like to do and women will come". But this means bars and clubs are out of the picture for guys like us, as we enjoy neither drinking, smoking, the music there, nor paying for that. And those are the "hobby activities" there. If it weren't for wanting to find sex and affection there, we would not go. I might like to play party games with friendly and open people like you'd do at a house party but that's not how it works there as far as I've seen.

Here's part of my experience.

Last time I was out, because my siblings invited me to a small party boat, it did not even seem like anyone was there to meet anyone else. I was thinking of this even at the time because it struck me so much. Everyone man or woman was with the people they came there with in almost only unisex groups (the only exception I can recall is my own). The women didn't look like they were either thinking about or open to approaches. When everyone walked ashore I did not see any guys and girls chatting with each other as if they had just met. Men had been standing around on the boat gazing out across the dance floor in between small talking with each other, and they left with each other. Women likewise left with each other. When some women were sitting down by themselves at a table, they seemed completely disinterested in me or their surroundings when I looked at them to gauge whether they cared that I was there so I could make eye contact and maybe talk to them. Just sitting there with a bitch face on and with or without looking into a phone. The only ones who seemed to really get anything out of the event in the end were the organizers you paid to get in.

I speak so much about the tone I perceived there so I make it a clear contrast to what I'm about to say. Once when I was in a bowling alley with my siblings and we were walking out, a group of girls were standing there who I felt had been checking me out through the evening. When we passed by them and I said something that gave away being single, they cast what I thought were desperate gazes at me as if they were one last chance hoping I would talk to them (I found none of them any attractive or I would have). I didn't see a single gaze or pro-social behavior like this at the party boat between anyone, the only interest I ever saw was to me from what I would later find out was a very heavily cosmetically made up single mom.

If bars and clubs really were a place to "meet people", why have I always perceived them to be the least open and relaxed places I could possibly choose to spend an evening in compared to other things I've done or been to?

I don't think humans are evolved to "date" strangers. There are exceptions, but we've almost always found partners through people that were either in our own or our acquaintances' social spheres in some way. I guess maybe if you find a way to enjoy bars and clubs and became a regular at some places.

[TruthSeeker]

When dating, you are told to "do what you like to do and women will come". But this means bars and clubs are out of the picture for guys like us, as we enjoy neither drinking, smoking, the music there, nor paying for that. And those are the "hobby activities" there. If it weren't for wanting to find sex and affection there, we would not go. I might like to play party games with friendly and open people like you'd do at a house party but that's not how it works there as far as I've seen.

Here's part of my experience.

Last time I was out, because my siblings invited me to a small party boat, it did not even seem like anyone was there to meet anyone else. I was thinking of this even at the time because it struck me so much. Everyone man or woman was with the people they came there with in almost only unisex groups (the only exception I can recall is my own). The women didn't look like they were either thinking about or open to approaches. When everyone walked ashore I did not see any guys and girls chatting with each other as if they had just met. Men had been standing around on the boat gazing out across the dance floor in between small talking with each other, and they left with each other. Women likewise left with each other. When some women were sitting down by themselves at a table, they seemed completely disinterested in me or their surroundings when I looked at them to gauge whether they cared that I was there so I could make eye contact and maybe talk to them. Just sitting there with a bitch face on and with or without looking into a phone. The only ones who seemed to really get anything out of the event in the end were the organizers you paid to get in.

I speak so much about the tone I perceived there so I make it a clear contrast to what I'm about to say. Once when I was in a bowling alley with my siblings and we were walking out, a group of girls were standing there who I felt had been checking me out through the evening. When we passed by them and I said something that gave away being single, they cast what I thought were desperate gazes at me as if they were one last chance hoping I would talk to them (I found none of them any attractive or I would have). I didn't see a single gaze or pro-social behavior like this at the party boat between anyone, the only interest I ever saw was to me from what I would later find out was a very heavily cosmetically made up single mom.

If bars and clubs really were a place to "meet people", why have I always perceived them to be the least open and relaxed places I could possibly choose to spend an evening in compared to other things I've done or been to?

I don't think humans are evolved to "date" strangers. There are exceptions, but we've almost always found partners through people that were either in our own or our acquaintances' social spheres in some way. I guess maybe if you find a way to enjoy bars and clubs and became a regular at some places.

Pretty common experience. Happens in bars and clubs all the time. 

I have never been a night life person, but my sister sure as hell was in her 20s. She would go out almost every week - sometimes multiple times - to bars, clubs and who knows here. 

She remained single throughout all those years. And not because she didn't meet men, but because she was out with her girlfriends (a pack of bitches); and they were probably (I wasn't there.) rejecting every men who would come their way cause that's what women do.

When women are out in a group, it is really, really hard for a man to cut through as he has to appeal to almost all of them since women put their female friends above men. 

A guy is more likely to push away his friends for a woman; women rarely do that. 

----------------

As a side note:

I don't see anything wrong with meeting strangers because every person that you know today was once a stranger. The problem comes, imo, from the settings where you meet them. 

For example, Tinder or a bar, is full of men. This habitat allows women to develop an abundance mindset devaluing each man. In short, she knows that there's a sea of men willing to be with her and doesn't value you as much unless you are a 1%-er or something.

My mother and father were certainly strangers when they met. But it was in different settings and none of them had developed the abundance mindset. In fact, they were in scarcity mode.

[Loverboy]

Pretty common experience. Happens in bars and clubs all the time. 

I have never been a night life person, but my sister sure as hell was in her 20s. She would go out almost every week - sometimes multiple times - to bars, clubs and who knows here. 

She remained single throughout all those years. And not because she didn't meet men, but because she was out with her girlfriends (a pack of bitches); and they were probably (I wasn't there.) rejecting every men who would come their way cause that's what women do.

When women are out in a group, it is really, really hard for a man to cut through as he has to appeal to almost all of them since women put their female friends above men. 

A guy is more likely to push away his friends for a woman; women rarely do that. 

The "bitch pack" anecdote reminds me of a time I was in the subway, stepped into a wagon and then this girl called me over to her group of girls. As I found out and could tell from the manner in which she called me over, she was the bossy mother hen of the pack. But once I got into the group and started connecting a little with the other girls, she turned hostile to me and ended up being the one to evict me from the group she herself had invited me to in the first place. None of the other girls had displayed any hint of enmity to me that I could detect.

Another time I slid a note to a cashier, who I knew had been checking me out at some point a good while before that when she thought I didn't see. She texted me in a couple of days or so, probably deliberating about me meanwhile with her friends. When I passed by her checkout again a couple of times she visibly lit up when she saw me as far as I could tell, especially one of the times, seemed friendly and even displayed curiosity about me in conversation face to face. But then she ghosted me anyway after a few text messages. After that I coincidentally passed by her friend a few times on the way to the store, and each time the friend gave me one of the most hateful glares I've received in my life. This friend would have no reason to look at me and no clue who I was except if the cashier I hit on had told her about me. I decided to ignore the cashier after she ghosted, but a few months later as I was checking out I could not avoid absentmindedly glancing in her direction as I was facing it from my checkout and looked up. She was already staring at me, with that same intensely hateful glare that her friend gave me. It felt so intensely hateful that it actually surprised me - I could really see the antipathy on her. I instinctively smiled a bit at her, but her staring expression didn't change. This was months after she ghosted, after which I had never texted her and never so much as cast a glance in her direction or gone near her.

[TruthSeeker]

The "bitch pack" anecdote reminds me of a time I was in the subway, stepped into a wagon and then this girl called me over to her group of girls. As I found out and could tell from the manner in which she called me over, she was the bossy mother hen of the pack. But once I got into the group and started connecting a little with the other girls, she turned hostile to me and ended up being the one to evict me from the group she herself had invited me to in the first place. None of the other girls had displayed any hint of enmity to me that I could detect.

Another time I slid a note to a cashier, who I knew had been checking me out at some point a good while before that when she thought I didn't see. She texted me in a couple of days or so, probably deliberating about me meanwhile with her friends. When I passed by her checkout again a couple of times she visibly lit up when she saw me as far as I could tell, especially one of the times, seemed friendly and even displayed curiosity about me in conversation face to face. But then she ghosted me anyway after a few text messages. After that I coincidentally passed by her friend a few times on the way to the store, and each time the friend gave me one of the most hateful glares I've received in my life. This friend would have no reason to look at me and no clue who I was except if the cashier I hit on had told her about me. I decided to ignore the cashier after she ghosted, but a few months later as I was checking out I could not avoid absentmindedly glancing in her direction as I was facing it from my checkout and looked up. She was already staring at me, with that same intensely hateful glare that her friend gave me. It felt so intensely hateful that it actually surprised me - I could really see the antipathy on her. I instinctively smiled a bit at her, but her staring expression didn't change. This was months after she ghosted, after which I had never texted her and never so much as cast a glance in her direction or gone near her.

Explains why I consider approaching women in groups a complete waste of time.

I have done it many times, though. I have approached duos, trios - even packs. Never again. In fact, I will probably never approach even "singles" anymore. Why do something that brings you only pain? 

As to the second story - women are inconsistent creatures - not to be confused with complicated. They cannot be trusted.

[Navigator]

I don't think humans are evolved to "date" strangers. There are exceptions, but we've almost always found partners through people that were either in our own or our acquaintances' social spheres in some way. I guess maybe if you find a way to enjoy bars and clubs and became a regular at some places.

Pretty much all my girlfriends were from circles of people that I already knew
And not that long ago people had arranged marriages and still have to this day in some societies and cultures
I think that you can only pickup women at bars if you are very handsome/have money/or you are male alpha/or smooth talker
Now what are the odds

[TruthSeeker]

Pretty much all my girlfriends were from circles of people that I already knew
And not that long ago people had arranged marriages and still have to this day in some societies and cultures
I think that you can only pickup women at bars if you are very handsome/have money/or you are male alpha/or smooth talker
Now what are the odds

I don't think it's the stranger part, although it doesn't help.

I think the real culprit is that women have too many choices and freedom to act upon them (hyper-gamy).

I think social media + smartphones + propaganda are the real culprit. 

Even in the past, some people were total strangers when they met. But they didn't have as many options (malls) and were more likely to settle.

[Rickley]

I don't think it's the stranger part, although it doesn't help.

I think the real culprit is that women have too many choices and freedom to act upon them (hyper-gamy).

I think social media + smartphones + propaganda are the real culprit. 

Even in the past, some people were total strangers when they met. But they didn't have as many options (malls) and were more likely to settle.

You mentioned before that you were approaching women. By estimate how many times have you approached and where?