NattyOrNot's Board

Veganism is a scam - just one of the many nutritional sects like paleo, low carb and others and just one more way to milk money on vegan products from uneducated and gullible people
I didn's say that you should eat only meat but balanced diet is the best - eat everything but in moderation, that is all it takes
Vegan diet is not a balanced diet and therefore not healthy - it's deficient in iron and calcium, and you can get B12 vitamin and essential omega 3 fatty acid (EPA) only from animal products
Therefore, many vegan products are fortified and many vegans takes supplements

(02-21-2020, 09:20 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Veganism is a scam - just one of the many nutritional sects like paleo, low carb and others and just one more way to milk money on vegan products from uneducated and gullible people

It's not a "nutritional sect". It's an ethical approach and diet is just a part of it. Where is the scam in that?

(02-21-2020, 09:20 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]I didn's say that you should eat only meat but balanced diet is the best - eat everything but in moderation, that is all it takes

And what is moderation exactly? The healthiest and longest living populations eat (or ate) mostly plant based diet (95% of calories from plants). If that's what you mean by moderation, then fine.

(02-21-2020, 09:20 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Vegan diet is not a balanced diet and therefore not healthy - it's deficient in iron and calcium, and you can get B12 vitamin and essential omega 3 fatty acid (EPA) only from animal products
Therefore, many vegan products are fortified and many vegans takes  supplements

Oh JFC, you too? It's like reading anti-vegan carnist pamphlet.

It easily can be balanced, it's not inherently deficient in iron and calcium, you can gest omega-3's from plants. B12 is a tricky one, but... wait for it... supplements are fine. How do you think how much B12 animal products have anyway? To take the RDI of B12 you have to eat amount of animal products that is not recommended (actually better - recommended to avoid). And animal products are supplemented too, now what?

Do you think that omni diet is inherently balanced? Why then most people in the first world countries are fat and die from noncommunicable diseases?

Switzerland and Australia for example are among top on longevity nation and their diets are not exactly plant based - diet is only one of the factors
EPA omega 3 fatty acid are ONLY available from animal sources - our body can convert ALA omega 3 fatty acids from plant sources to EPA, but conversion ratio is very small to none (depending from person to person)
Ancient gladiators for example ate mostly plant based diet, and they made special potion from ashes and bones due to low calcium and magnesium level in their food
Also iron from plant sources is not that easily absorbed in our body as from animal sources
Etc etc
These are some facts, but you are free to believe in anything you want
As for ethical reasons, here is pretty good article from nattyornot site

http://nattyornot.com/vegans-and-meat-eaters-are-both-unethical-so-shut-the-fuck-up/

Here I will stop my writing - because arguing with vegan is like arguing with religious fanatic -well..speaking of a sect or a cult

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Switzerland and Australia for example are among top on longevity nation and their diets are not exactly plant based - diet is only one of the factors

Of course, we live in a modern society with advanced technology. We can eat like shit, not move and we will live to 80+ on metformin, statins and beta-blockers. But get your shit together, and you can add easily 10 years on top of that.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.117.032047

One of the studied lifestyle factors was diet. Assumed (and effective!) indicator of a quality diet was eating fruits and vegetables. Weird, huh?

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]EPA omega 3 fatty acid are ONLY available from animal sources - our body can convert ALA omega 3 fatty acids from plant sources to EPA, but conversion ratio is very small to none (depending from person to person)

Did you read studies or repeat nonsense? If that was the case vegans would literally fall apart, but they don't, and they have no worse health outcomes than omnivores. The truth is that in most people conversion is fine. We don't need that much EPA and DHA and basically all health benefits halt for intakes higher than 200mg per day. If someone fears that they may be omega-3 deficient , they can eat fatty seafood 2 times a week or take supplements like rational human being in modern times. It's still far from stuffing you face with bacon and eggs like that brain defected individual @Grinch suggests.

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Ancient gladiators for example ate mostly plant based diet, and they made special potion from ashes and bones due to low calcium and magnesium level in their food

Plant ashes and not bones, if we read the same article. They studied bones of gladiators though, so you could mixed these things together
That said, who cares what slaves in ancient times did? It's a fallacy similar to one paleo crowd makes. Cavemen didn't know shit, so nobody should care about their eating habits. Thay ate what was available, not what was optimal for health because they had deep nutritional knowledge, lol.

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Also iron from plant sources is not that easily absorbed in our body as from animal sources

And? Is it a problem? Can't it be accounted for in a diet? The most important point is that you can easily increase absorption of iron from plants (eat vit C), but you can't take away heme iron from animals, and that's a problem since too much iron leads to oxidation and DNA damage, thus there is association between high iron and some noncommunicable diseases.

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]These are some facts, but you are free to believe in anything you want

No facts, just some excuses.

Funny that you didn't feel to give your input when @Grinch spewed his nonsense, but feel compelled to leave usual factoids from carni or paleo anti-vegan spiel.

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]As for ethical reasons, here is pretty good article from nattyornot site

http://nattyornot.com/vegans-and-meat-eaters-are-both-unethical-so-shut-the-fuck-up/

Here I will stop my writing - because arguing with vegan is like arguing with religious fanatic -well..speaking of a sect or a cult

Except it's not you who relies on evidence here. @Grinch, the Hitler loving troll and now you (I am not jealous of company you choose ) talk about sects and cults, but it's you who insist on actual "animal sacrifice"

Natty or not article is a classic appeal to futility fallacy. If you can't be perfect then why bother? It's a stupid argument and no rational person should rely on it. How you can call it good is just baffling.

(02-22-2020, 07:29 AM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Here I will stop my writing - because arguing with vegan is like arguing with religious fanatic -well..speaking of a sect or a cult

Navigator,
Don't wrestle with a pig, the pig enjoys it, and you get dirty.

@Grinch
Funny part  is that he think that you and I are in some kind of league against him judging from his writting
I mean hahahah - I don't even know you nor I was ever communicated with you, I  just pointed out that veganism is bs
So typical for vegans
As I said

Quote:...because arguing with vegan is like arguing with religious fanatic -well..speaking of a sect or a cult

...plus conspiracy theories, paranoia , scientific fallacy, war against all etc - all that bs always come from the same package

Speaking about pigs, @Grinch.

I thought you got back to your cave you had crawled out from. Wanna make more nonsensical claims and link YouTube videos as an evidence or studies that directly contradict what you're saying?

Do you have anything else than insults?

(02-22-2020, 12:47 PM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]Funny part  is that he think that you and I are in some kind of league against him judging from his writting

Why don't you quote me on this? I just poked you a little bit and highlighted that you agree with the "brightest" guys on this forum. 

(02-22-2020, 12:47 PM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]I mean hahahah - I don't even know you nor I was ever communicated with you

And I didn't suggest anything of the sort. You expect it though, because you have apparently some preconceived notion how vegan should behave. "Eat more veggies and fruits, soy is fine and doesn't make your dick fall off" is now a vegan bullshit and a sign of participation in a cult. Don't be ridiculous.

(02-22-2020, 12:47 PM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]I  just pointed out that veganism is bs 
So typical for vegans
As I said 

Except you didn't. We don't even discuss veganism, we discuss health outcomes of eating plant based diets and more meat and dairy heavy diets. Our genius @Grinch started beating a vegan strawman since he can't come up with anything else.

(02-22-2020, 12:47 PM)Navigator Wrote: [ -> ]...plus conspiracy theories, paranoia , scientific fallacy, war against all etc - all that bs always come from the same package

See that both of you, when you insert your projections about vegans onto me, you stop quoting me. That's really convenient, lol.

Also, scientific fallacy? Is this a thing?

Also also, isn't the general theme of this site a little bit conspirational/paranoia driven? we are all guilty here.

(02-22-2020, 12:51 PM)impatient_undertaker Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking about pigs, @Grinch.

I thought you got back to your cave you had crawled out from. Wanna make more nonsensical claims and link YouTube videos as an evidence or studies that directly contradict what you're saying?

Do you have anything else than insults?

Is that another one of your "funny " jokes, Joker?
i don't feed trolls,  or the mentally ill. You can play with yourself all you want.

(02-22-2020, 01:09 PM)Grinch Wrote: [ -> ]Is that another one of your "funny " jokes, Joker?
i don't feed trolls,  or the mentally ill. You can play with yourself all you want.

More lies and insults, that's what I thought.