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Is there a popular drug-free sport at all?
#1
I thought a while about that "What about the women" thread (https://nattyornotforum.com/showthread.php?tid=694) and the following came to my mind:

Suppose, in a given sport,
  1. the most successful athletes gain something worthwhile (money, status, fame, ...),
  2. there exist specific drugs that enhance your performance in that sport significantly,
  3. there are either no drug tests or there exist effective ways to bypass those tests,
then the elite in that sport cannot be drug-free. Why? Because among the most gifted athletes in that sport those will excel who take the drugs (since the drugs improve their performance even further), and the athletes will take the drugs since they gain something from using them (money, status, fame, ...).

Now, I presume, 3. to be generally true. I mean, a drug test is an explicitly defined procedure following certain rules. If you understand those rules you will likely find a way to bypass ("hack") them (that might include corrupting the personnel involved in the tests).

I also assume 2. to be true for almost any kind of sport. It's obviously true for sports based on strength or endurance as we all know from experience. But in the large pharmaceutical arsenal we have today there will be something for any sport, even for purely skill-based disciplines. Think of shooters who use beta blockers and so on.

So, we're left with 1. Will someone take drugs to become the world champion in cherry pit spitting? Probably not since it's not worth the effort. But for many, many disciplines, 1. will be true. It's certainly true for all olympic sports. Even when there's no money in that sport itself, you can gain much more via social media.

With 1.-3. being true for most sports today, the logical conclusion then is, that there cannot be a drug-free elite in any popular sport anymore.

How do you see it?
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#2
(03-08-2019, 11:06 PM)Hans Wrote: I thought a while about that "What about the women" thread (https://nattyornotforum.com/showthread.php?tid=694) and the following came to my mind:

Suppose, in a given sport,
  1. the most successful athletes gain something worthwhile (money, status, fame, ...),
  2. there exist specific drugs that enhance your performance in that sport significantly,
  3. there are either no drug tests or there exist effective ways to bypass those tests,
then the elite in that sport cannot be drug-free. Why? Because among the most gifted athletes in that sport those will excel who take the drugs (since the drugs improve their performance even further), and the athletes will take the drugs since they gain something from using them (money, status, fame, ...).

Now, I presume, 3. to be generally true. I mean, a drug test is an explicitly defined procedure following certain rules. If you understand those rules you will likely find a way to bypass ("hack") them (that might include corrupting the personnel involved in the tests).

I also assume 2. to be true for almost any kind of sport. It's obviously true for sports based on strength or endurance as we all know from experience. But in the large pharmaceutical arsenal we have today there will be something for any sport, even for purely skill-based disciplines. Think of shooters who use beta blockers and so on.

So, we're left with 1. Will someone take drugs to become the world champion in cherry pit spitting? Probably not since it's not worth the effort. But for many, many disciplines, 1. will be true. It's certainly true for all olympic sports. Even when there's no money in that sport itself, you can gain much more via social media.

With 1.-3. being true for most sports today, the logical conclusion then is, that there cannot be a drug-free elite in any popular sport anymore.

How do you see it?
I honestly can't think of any good examples. Definitely not martial arts or boxing. I did BJJ and many of the dudes looked unnaturally big or muscular. There were short guys (5'6) with pec slabs and bulging six packs who had impressive endurance and strength skills during choke lock holds and other techniques. 

There are other types of drugs besides steroids that can assist and give the athlete a huge edge. One famous drug is Adderall (class amphetamine), which is a cognitive enhancer when taken at the right dosage. Dubbed the "cognitive steroid." I know it's effectiveness because I get it prescribed for "ADHD" which I actually don't have and used it as an excuse to get it from doctor. Adderall has allowed me to excel at things like piano and studying. What would've taken me a 3 hours to solve a math problem gets reduced to 1 hour. 

Also helped a ton with BJJ as it allowed me to think quicker and react to unexpected moves from opponent. Got my ass kicked a lot, but I did well other times. 

Some famous players got in trouble for having Adderall in their system because WADA put amphetamines on list of prohibited substances. Safe to say that all the big forms of sport are 100% drugs and nothing else.
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#3
Hans you are correct. Where there is money, fame, or ego involved, there are PEDs. Human growth hormone supplementation is not detectable after a few hours. Peyton Manning, the NFL quarterback, was caught having HGH shipped to his home. When questioned, he said his wife ordered it for herself. The corrupt NFL accepted his explanation.
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#4
Yes. Usually skilled extreme sports: skateboarding, BMX, ..etc. Those sports do not require the use of PEDs since PEDs do not result in direct skill improvement. Yes, you can still benefit, but those taking them are not at a significant advantage. You can be 100% full-blown natty and be on pro level in skateboarding.

But you can argue that those sports are not mainstream, although they are very popular overall.
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#5
I have the impression that in Muay Thai most Thais are natty. But because it's untested there should be a lot of foreigners using.
Also think guys from other styles of south east asia kickboxing such Lethwei and Pradal Serey are probably natty too.


Someone mentioned BJJ. At least in Brazil, PED use is widespread among BJJ (even low level) competitors.
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#6
(03-11-2019, 07:58 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote: Yes. Usually skilled extreme sports: skateboarding, BMX, ..etc. Those sports do not require the use of PEDs since PEDs do not result in direct skill improvement. Yes, you can still benefit, but those taking them are not at a significant advantage. You can be 100% full-blown natty and be on pro level in skateboarding.

Smoking pot is still doping ...

Cliches aside ..., no, not really:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/84695/oly...ug-testing

Quote from that reference:

"I'm wondering how it's going to work as far as the drug testing is concerned, because some guys skate really well on weed and if they have to stop smoking for one competition [the Olympics] it might really affect their performance."

If that is not doping then what is?

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/...nti-doping

Quote from that reference:

"According to World Anti-Doping Agency figures, no tests were carried out in skateboarding in 2015 and only two took place the following year."

And then I found this:

https://www.usada.org/category/sanction/skateboarding/

And for snowboarding (which is already olympic):

https://www.usada.org/category/sanction/snowboarding/

I don't want to play the party pooper here, but maybe you're romanticizing those sports, TruthSeeker.
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#7
Cannabis banned from sports?

Here in the states cannabis is getting state-wise legalized though federally it's not. I don't really consider cannabis a PED. I've done plenty of it and it definitely does NOT enhance any of my cognitive skills. Maybe for some people it would, but that's a wild card.
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#8
I don't know for you guys, but weed makes me fucking retarded on every level.

Some guys skate really well on weed, because they are already skilled. With this logic they need to ban caffeine, nicotine and bunch of not so effective for everyone substances too, which is non-sense.
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#9
(03-13-2019, 10:45 AM)twp Wrote: I don't know for you guys, but weed makes me fucking retarded on every level.

Some guys skate really well on weed, because they are already skilled. With this logic they need to ban caffeine, nicotine and bunch of not so effective for everyone substances too, which is non-sense.

The only time they need to ban weed is for laughing competitions.

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#10
Have you ever wonder how much are drugs used in other professions which demands high physical performance and endurance?
Military, S. O. anyone?

Very curious read

https://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2016/04/p...pmxVcTVx2A

Quote:Not only was amphetamine use ubiquitous during the Vietnam War, but the US military knowingly pushed opioids on soldiers. Troops infiltrating Laos for a four-day mission each received a “medical kit” containing 12 tablets of Darvon (an opiate), 24 tablets of codeine (an opiate) and six tablets of dextroamphetamine. Furthermore, members of the special forces were administered regular steroid injections prior to long and demanding expeditions.
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