My Opinion on the MGTOW Movement

[Brett]

Nice. That story belongs into a book on proper male behavior to be handed out to boys when they reach puberty (better to be told by their fathers though).

But think twice. Is Rob really a "bad boy" here? What did he actually do? He scolded Bianca, rightfully, for giving away *his* property without having asked him before. He then took *his* shirt back from a stranger (who in my opinion should not have taken it in the first place: keep your personal problems out of your business, otherwise, it only calls for trouble). And he tossed *his* shirt into the garbage, clearly a symbolic act to underline his position. He did not harm anybody here. Whether you like it or not, that was all acceptable male behavior with the last scene possibly being some show made up for the girl (but *he* paid for it since he threw *his* shirt away).

A real "bad boy" would probably beaten up the gardener or the girl. A real bad boy acts out of any conventions not fearing the consequences. A man who asserts his interests is not a bad boy just because of doing so.

On Stan, yeah, his behavior got him nowhere. He lost two shirts in that story (even his favorite one) to a stranger for nothing in return. Bianca now knows he is a nice guy with whom she can do whatever she likes. But is Stan really a "nice guy"? I mean, did he give his shirts to the gardener for reasons of charity? No, he wanted to impress Bianca in a sneaky way. That's not nice, is it?

So in the end, Rob possibly gave Bianca the tingles due to his assertive behavior while Stan will most likely end in friend-zone territory eventually.

Thank you bro. 

Its a children story though so I couldn't have said "then Rob proceded to strangle Bianca" now could I

I do understand what you are saying but I don't think to qualify as a bad boy you need to resort to force. I still believe it can just be your sheer coldness or indifference that ticks the box so to speak.

Yes with Stan representing the nice guy community, often that sneaky behaviour is very present. These men have earned the title nice guy, but often their intentions are never pure. They want sex just as much as the bad boys do, however their way of going about it, is to almost go into stealth mode. 

They hope by never actually making their intentions explicitly clear (like grabbing the woman and going for the kiss) they can still attract her interest by being polite and respectful. Normally a facade, which is why it mostly backfires and they get friendzoned.

I guess that is the irony of it. Nice guys are not really nice and bad boys are actually just looking out for their own interests which is actually acceptable human behaviour. 

Looks like whoever came up with those terms for each camp actually created a false pretence of who the men in each camp actually are.

[Hans]

... I couldn't have said "then Rob proceded to strangle Bianca" now could I

I wouldn't be surprised if she even liked that ...

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Yes with Stan representing the nice guy community, often that sneaky behaviour is very present. These men have earned the title nice guy, but often their intentions are never pure. They want sex just as much as the bad boys do, however their way of going about it, is to almost go into stealth mode. 

They hope by never actually making their intentions explicitly clear (like grabbing the woman and going for the kiss) they can still attract her interest by being polite and respectful. Normally a facade, which is why it mostly backfires and they get friendzoned.

Even the dumbest girls are champions in spotting the nice guy when he winds around with his little favors here and there never making a move.

[Brett]

I wouldn't be surprised if she even liked that ...

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Even the dumbest girls are champions in spotting the nice guy when he winds around with his little favors here and there never making a move.

She probably would. I read somewhere that a large percentile of women have a fantasy about being 'raped' according to some study. Not sure how accurate that is though.

[Hans]

She probably would. I read somewhere that a large percentile of women have a fantasy about being 'raped' according to some study. Not sure how accurate that is though.

I'm definitely not in the position to make a scientifically accurate study on that matter but I've had a few girlfriends in my life. Most of them liked something that a kid not accustomed to today's Internet porn would consider 'rough sex'. It was shocking for me on first encounter, but now, with a more relaxed view on things in life, that behavior seems pretty normal and natural to me. One woman, a lawyer (yeah, I know ...), even said upfront that she likes to be dominated in bed (but only in bed, as she emphasized). Also some of my buddies who look more attractive than me (read as: had more and better looking girls) could confirm that observation.

Unless you are a complete pervert, a girl likes what you like, but in the opposite role. So while you want to dominate, she wants to submit. Really strange, isn't it? But it makes perfect sense to me now considering our biological reproduction. Man and woman cannot have the same role during sex since that would be like two electrons pushing themselves off. They cannot be both dominant or both submissive. Her role must complement his role, like an electron attracted to a proton. Since a straight male usually prefers the dominant role, a female prefers the submissive role even if she is an "empowered you go girl" outside the bed. I know, you don't watch porn but if you did you would recognize that very same pattern: the man dominating the woman, often in ridiculous, exaggerated ways.

Now, that "rape" thing: Obviously, no woman wants to be forced to sexual acts against her will (that would be a real rape). But when she fantasizes about "rape" (think of "Fifty Shades of Grey" and stuff like that), then what she really means is that she wants to be sexually dominated, willingly, as described above.

And then there is the third "rape", when a woman abuses that term to get some attention by crashing the reputation of some creepy kid who just tried to touch her (after having read on some alpha sucker's blog how effective touching a girl supposedly was).

One word, three meanings. Never underestimate the female mind. ;)

[Plato]

I don't think everyone fit into the stereotypes of bad boy or nice guy . I get why girls would go for bad boy's . like I wouldn't treat women like shit unless she insult me your was trying to take disadvantage of me . your was aka bitch. I treat most girls neutral, unless I am dating your in relationship then you shouldn't treat her any different.

like I take women out and stuff but I am no door Matt ill slid my hand down girl on first date why not your there because your both interested right . tbh like if don't kiss her our touch her boobs then I think the date did not go well . like you would give it few more date see were it goes but you should eventually have sex it only normal. I play it cool on most date see were it goes . I would say somewhat of good person . but also can be obsessive and controlling . so were does that put me . I just think I am my own person rather than stereotype type .

like sex and romance is important in relationship . sex is like main thing for most people .. like as long women is not narcissist your overly fat then I don't care . she can even be 4./10 . like after looks personality, hobbies and interested is all that left . but yes unfairly women like money and have big ego now's . I actually like the dom type women not the ones that hate men . the ones who like them. but I not really that picky I DONT think.

[Brett]

I don't think  everyone fit into the stereotypes of bad boy or nice guy . I get why girls would go for bad boy's . like I wouldn't treat women like shit unless she insult me your  was trying to take disadvantage of me . your was aka bitch.  I treat most girls neutral, unless I am dating your in relationship then you shouldn't  treat her any different.    

like I take women out and stuff but I am no door Matt ill slid my hand down girl on first date why not your there because your both interested right . tbh like if don't kiss her our touch her boobs then I think the date did not go well . like you would give it few more date see were it goes but you should eventually have sex it only normal.  I play it cool on most date see were it goes . I would say somewhat of good person . but also can be obsessive and controlling .  so were does that put me . I just think I am my own person rather than stereotype type .  

like sex and romance is important in relationship . sex is like main thing for most people ..  like as long women is  not narcissist your overly fat  then I don't care  . she can even be 4./10 . like after looks personality, hobbies and interested is all that left . but yes unfairly women like money and have big ego now's .  I actually like the dom type women not the ones that hate men .  the ones who like them.  but I not really that picky I DONT think.

I agree Plato. If you don't kiss a girl on a date I also feel like it means it went nowhere. It is natural for two people who like each other to become affectionate and kiss.