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Conviction
#21
(07-26-2020, 05:00 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote: I don't think there is. Satan is a million times smarter than a human and God is infinitely powerful. He created the entire universe. Besides, where would you go. You were created by God and so is everything around you.

Besides, at they say "you can't serve two masters".

They do say that by rejecting the path of God, you have automatically chosen the path of Satan, and vice versa. Even if you follow God you will still suffer, just in different ways.
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#22
@ Brett

There's no free will and the ultimate example is that neither of us has chosen to be here. You weren't asked whether you want to be on this Earth and live under those conditions. You were just created and put here to obey the laws of God. He created you and the rules.

Also, as you say, in the old testament there are clear examples how God "hardened" the heart of the Egyptian pharaoh who stopped the people of Israel from leaving. Then, God sends all kinds of disasters to Egypt. Therefore, if God was the one hardening the heart of the pharoah, it was Him who didn't let the people of Israel leave.

I guess the goal was to demonstrate His power in front of the people of Israel. It just shows that ultimately, people are just pawns in a divine plan. As they say, God has a plan for you...and sometimes it isn't all that good.
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#23
(07-27-2020, 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote: @ Brett

There's no free will and the ultimate example is that neither of us has chosen to be here. You weren't asked whether you want to be on this Earth and live under those conditions. You were just created and put here to obey the laws of God. He created you and the rules.

Also, as you say, in the old testament there are clear examples how God "hardened" the heart of the Egyptian pharaoh who stopped the people of Israel from leaving. Then, God sends all kinds of disasters to Egypt. Therefore, if God was the one hardening the heart of the pharoah, it was Him who didn't let the people of Israel leave.

I guess the goal was to demonstrate His power in front of the people of Israel. It just shows that ultimately, people are just pawns in a divine plan. As they say, God has a plan for you...and sometimes it isn't all that good.

Yes.

Romans 9 from beginning to end speaks of this.

Also, as another example we have Judas who betrays Jesus into the hands of the enemy.

However, if we look at Revelations 13: 8 - 10 

"All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast - all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. (Or written from the creation of the world in the book of life belonging to the lamb that was slain).

It tells us there again that the book of life has been written at the creation of the world. You can't choose God, you can't through actions have him put your name into the Book of Life.

Lets think about it, as volatile as human nature is - one day you sin, next day you ask for forgiveness and repent, one year you go back to your old habits of pornography or binge drinking, next year you repent and ask God for forgiveness.

So is God erasing your name and then rewriting it back in (through the free will argument). Obviously not. Your name is either there or it isn't. It was either there at the creation of the world or it wasn't - as scripture says.

Your 'good deeds' are not your ticket to heaven so to speak.

Therefore Judas was also predestined to betray Jesus. Like pharoe - he was raised up for that very purpose. 

Romans 8: For those God foreknew he also predestined...

Sound like free will?

Go read Ephesians 1:4

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world..."

Ephesians 2: 8 -10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no-one can boast. For we are Gods workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

He prepared in advance. Before you were born he has already prepared your good deeds. 

Again - a gift from God. Not through mans volition can he attain Gods favour. 

John 6: 44 "No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day".

So faith is from God and God chooses who he will give it to. Unless through faith you believe in Jesus - you cannot be saved. So God chooses who is saved and whos name is written in the book of life.

In fact in my opinion the one scripture that sort of sums up the whole bible:

Ephesians 1: 11

In him we were chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.

Unfortunately human pride gets in the way. So many have been deceived and think they can buy their place in the book of life.

Faith without works is dead but God prepared your good works in advance for you to do, and his faith is a gift to those he has chosen to draw to his son Jesus.

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#24
Isaiah 45

45 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
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#25
(07-28-2020, 08:26 PM)ru.ev Wrote: Isaiah 45

45 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Precisely.

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#26
(07-24-2020, 08:36 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote: And what if God and Satan are in this game together and we're merely pawns who can never find peace? What if we're already in hell?

YOU are heaven and hell. light and dark.
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